Yeah, before this post I thought I had a pretty good handle on the Blue Tribe thing, but Scott describing it as “the Democratic Party as a social phenomenon with strong demographic and ideological implications … [which] can be said to have started in 2004” threw me for a loop. (This was originally written as a direct response to the anti-Watson side of elevatorgate.). [Edit] To be clear – this doesn’t mean that the “Grey Tribe” doesn’t refer to a real phenomenon. And in pretty standard pattern, when the zealous reformers cannot push their ideology generally they retreat into enclaves or try to enact it writ small in individual communities or states. I think about that a lot in the context of politics. Giuliani more of a hawk than McCain? I dunno, Hayekian libertarianism works for me. Maybe there’s a greater number of Christmas-and-Easter attendees but a lower number of regular churchgoers? SJ-2017 doesn’t look quite like SJ-2018 or SJ-2019. For example: I distinctly remember an Amazing Atheist video where he claims not only that Aquinas’s proofs are wrong, but that Aquinas himself is an imbecile for ever writing such stupid things in the first place. That, and Young Earth Creationism doesn’t help you find oil. I too really like history like this. Some heretical hamartiologies say that all of this is irrelevant, and we sin because we choose to. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Who knows, maybe that giant blackbox algorithm that is google and youtube hurt the movement as well with a change that was unfavorable to it. 16 years later, I’m glad we still hang out in the same spaces of the vast old Internet. EIAC had been timeless, examining the medieval kalam argument and the Scopes Monkey Trial with equal detachment. I need help understanding the chart on religious changing though. These are thoughtful comments, and I don’t disagree with their content, but I don’t think they address the thrust of my question. Maybe that group genetics was indeed more of a problem to the future SJ cummunity, given how “the bell curve” was divisive. Better question: Has the Democratic Party ever elected a professed Atheist as President, Governor or Senator? I was one of the guys arguing against the New Atheists back then. Not one particular archetype of manliness, not one out of a million ways to be a man, but all men. That 6 or more incidents occurred in two weeks is within the trend. The Sequences were clearly an up-sell on atheism and in the early days the community had an expectation that religious people couldn’t understand them without becoming atheists. He just strikes me as a sincere guy, and that’s an unfortunately rare quantity, especially in the age of social media. Dawkins always came across as crude and a bit out of his depth on religious stuff, too, so I don’t think it’s social media. They will say, “I was driving by a school bus stop, none of them were white.” This makes them so angry. zima: Great article, I hadn’t considered this angle before. That was certainly the case for me – in college I became intensely interested in the question how could people believe all these obviously-crazy things? Try it from your own perspective, then. The New Atheist’s God was human progress. I wonder whether it was another casualty of the shift to social justice, or the shift someone suggests below in the rationalistsphere to effective altruism. This did not remain the case, but it’s a laudable enough initial goal. (Or sloth, if you want to cast it in strictly deadly sins.). PZ Myers wrote his own obituary of New Atheism at the start of this year, inspired by another overview of the movement, both I think fairly good articles. I can say that CO2 emissions have been an issue since the advent of fossil fuels without thinking that CO2 emissions are the source of racism. Anecdotally – my vegetarianism always tended to be (and still is, to an extent, though people don’t react with consternation anymore, at most they get slightly inconvenienced by the need to feed me a non-standard meal) a much bigger deal than my non-belief. My metric is famous leaders of the movement, because it seems easier but probably still informative to track their personal ideological positions than to longitudinally study internet browsing habits of the masses. In addition I can only assume they were too old and too uncute, since as far as I can tell the younger, cuter Rise Against have filled the same role with mawkish tearjerkers about gay kids and immigrants mixed with thinly-veiled hymns to Antifa. Such is life. I would think you’d have cottoned on if they had. I think this is exactly it. This class voted the same as churchgoers but had very little in common socially. Atheists plus we care about social justice, the "debunking" of the video rests on this:... â, BA77@1779: it is self evidently true that voter fraud was taking place in the video It's a good exercise in... â, PS: I suspect, whoever wins for the moment there is going to be an impeachment process initiated, or things along... â, WJM, there can be no natural law duty to count tainted votes. If you start by asking, why is the internet like this? y’know, people). Consider for instance the anti-Islam crusade of Sam Harris: it’s entirely possible to view something as a serious existential threat while still recognizing that most problems have nothing to do with your bugbear. I think online arguments do change minds, to a scary large degree. We have Catholic atheists and Protestant atheists.”. I’ll overlook a lot from someone who (I feel) is genuinely writing from the heart. 3. You might call it the “New England diaspora.” Or maybe “post-Puritanism.” In the mid-1600s, they were Puritans. Hence, the schism. Democrats had not yet invented the hashtag #Resistance, but they had invented the spirit. Best to be on the safe side. Yes, all of those social dynamics are in play, but they’re all on steroids because the information that drives them consolidates so quickly. That is what I was trying to get across in my post above. There was a time in many places where what church you went to was extremely important. So you’re a pro New Atheist, anti-Islam, pro trans, anti antifa rationalist? The things that religious people think atheists want, like wild sex, drugs, and rock and roll, are mostly legal and cool and available. I would argue that, as someone who used to be a New Atheist until fairly recently. I disagree fundamentally that conches necessarily understand conch shells better than a student of conch shells – even if that student is an octopus (or something, this analogy is falling apart a bit). I appreciate your responses, it’s making the situation a lot clearer. 2) It became increasingly obvious that religion was not a convincing unqualified evil; neither is capitalism unless it’s defined tautologically as “whatever’s wrong with the system.” Arguments are weapons, little more. Just wanted to say, you’re a good guy. Interesting post Atlas. Like I said elsewhere, Scott should an archaeology tag for things like this. Suggest that if you simply MUST be an atheist, you at least learn how to treat people who disagree with your atheism with the same respect you want to be treated with. Wouldn’t a parsimonious, but cynical explanation be that the social divide represented by ‘atheists versus the religious’ morphed into ‘social justice versus racist deplorables’ quite easily. You’ve got a blindspot. ** As far as I’m aware, the remaining fora (such as this one) are also intellectually homogenous. Please dig up more about the history of the internet, if your muse allows! Your perception seems quite biased and no more charitable than the less charitable people you criticize, which makes for pot and kettle situation, IMO. AOC arguably, sorta…? Who knows? This is a mirror of my own political evolution from being horrified of the evangelists in the 80’s to dismayed by the looney SJW of the current age. Yeah, I agree. Have they been picking better targets and nobody noticed? • neurodiversity in general ‘Cause he sure as heck isn’t bowing to the SJ/”two genders” crowd. The 2010 Congress failed to really cut spending, but it did at least halt the growth. While more atheists are Democrats than are Republicans, and more voters are Democrats than are Republicans (but even more are non-voters), atheists are still a minority of Democrats as well as Republicans (and atheists are less well liked by their fellow Americans than are members of most religious sects, in order of most liked to less liked: Jews, Catholics, and Protestants are the most well liked, though Buddhists are very popular among ‘millenials’, with atheists only being slightly more liked than Muslims at the bottom of the list). Many of those post here (and less we pat ourselves on the back, the tribal motivations are still there, just subsumed to a greater or lessor extent, just like the truth seeking motives still exist in at least part for the more tribal amongst us). I felt like if someone didn’t already know about Pinker’s stances, they would’ve gotten a very wrong impression from your original statement. It’s a major problem. 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